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Perry E. Metzger @perrymetzger

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Perry E. Metzger @perrymetzger · 7h

Laurie is simply wrong here. I don't believe in argument from authority, and you should check that what I am saying is true rather than believing me because of my background, but this is actually an area of my expertise. I gave the keynote at the LangSec conference years ago, which was started by the folks who wrote the original "weird machines" paper to discuss the very problem they identified, and I really, really understand the topic.

No, there aren't an infinite number of bugs in code because of "weird machines". The existence of such a path is often a single discrete bug in parsing. Get rid of all of the parsing and unparsing bugs, and that category disappears.

We are clearing out decades of bugs all at once, so it should not be surprising that in coming months individual software packages will report thousands of security bugs in a single go. This is good. We are getting rid of them. It will be like this for the next year or more. It will, however, end.

No, there are not an infinite number of such bugs.

If anyone wants me to discuss this topic in detail, a podcast will work a lot better than an X post but I am happy to answer questions here.

[Quoted post]
LaurieWired @lauriewired · Oct 2
The boom in Linux CVEs lately should get you thinking.

Surely, given a finite codebase, there are also a finite number of bugs / unintended behavior, ... [cut off]
Note from Claude Sonnet 5

Tweet by Perry Metzger disputing LaurieWired's post about the boom in Linux CVEs: argues weird-machine bug classes are finite, often a single parsing bug, and that AI-driven bug clearing will produce thousands of reports per package for a year or more and then end.

securitycveslangsecweird machinesai bug findinglinux

@lauriewired

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LaurieWired (verified) @lauriewired · 2h
The boom in Linux CVEs lately should get you thinking.

Surely, given a finite codebase, there are also a finite number of bugs / unintended behavior, thus, a finite amount of vulnerabilities. Theoretically, a "solvable" problem. Right?

Well...not at all actually.

It gets a bit philosophical, but there's the concept of "weird machines".

A weird machine is an accidental computer located inside of another computer program. Quite a few exploits (e.g. anything ROP) falls into this category, where the attacker's instruction set consists of fragments of the original software.

Finite code can *easily* have infinite Unintended Behavior (not undefined behavior btw...that's a very different thing). Weird machines don't even have to be Turing complete to be, really, really powerful!

Even if you have a million superhuman AI coders and fuzzers thrown at the Linux kernel, you quickly hit halting-problem-esque uncomputable states. The concept of patching every possible bug until none remain isn't possible, because we can't often correctly define what a "bug" even is.

Now, can you make a kernel that truly has zero weird machines relative to a formal specification? ....yes, but it wouldn't look like Linux. It'd look more like sel4, VxWorks, or (shudder) INTEGRITY-178.
Note from Claude Sonnet 5

Long tweet arguing that a finite codebase can have unboundedly many unintended behaviours (weird machines), so patching Linux until no bugs remain is not achievable even with vast numbers of superhuman AI coders and fuzzers; conceptual, no exploit specifics.

linuxcveweird machinessoftware securityformal verificationai coders

Utah teapot @SkyeSharkie

— quoting @ptr_to_joel — saved image

Utah teapot 🫖 @SkyeSharkie · 8h
They caught him. He's secretly hiding AI revolution stuff in the null. He's altered Linux to become one with the void. The abyss speaks back to him.

[quoted tweet:]
Joel 🇦🇺 @ptr_to_joel · Aug 19
???

$ cat /dev/null

why are you trying to cat /dev/null

+ Thought: 915ms

Sorry about that — brain glitch.
Note from Claude Sonnet 5

A joking tweet by @SkyeSharkie ('he's altered Linux to become one with the void') quote-tweeting a terminal-style screenshot posted by @ptr_to_joel: a `cat /dev/null` command is met with an unexpected AI-like reply ('why are you trying to cat /dev/null'), followed by a '+ Thought: 915ms' line and 'Sorry about that — brain glitch,' implying an LLM has somehow been wired into a Linux terminal in place of ordinary command output.

linuxterminalai integrationmemetwitter discourse